[POLITICS]: "Mexico -- What went wrong?"

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
06/27/2018 at 21:28 • Filed to: None

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This piece is written by Victor Davis Hansen, a conservative whose writing I follow because he’s a Central Valley Californian and has some legitimate perspective. But I only infrequently make it past his first paragraph... Some good commentary here, though, IMHO. Your thoughts? And please keep it excellent, Oppo ...

DISCUSSION (71)

jkm7680 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/27/2018 at 21:36

Instead of fixing on the problems of his country, he’s encouraging people to leave his country and enter another one illegally as if they have the right to.

LOREM IPSUM > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/27/2018 at 21:43

The US doesn’t need a wall, honestly, it needs a DMZ.

Thou shalt not pass.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jkm7680
06/27/2018 at 21:51

I think that’s what VDH was saying, among other things. Still, I wouldn’t blame the people of Mexico for electing their own atom bomb of a president.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > LOREM IPSUM
06/27/2018 at 21:54

Kinja'd!!!

Seriously though: the day Kirsten Nielson got heckled when she left a Mexican restaurant... Was the irony of that choice of cuisine lost on the entire country? Shouldn’t she have been eating Korean ?

LOREM IPSUM > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/27/2018 at 22:02

I honestly try to ignore the media hoopla, but wasn’t there another politician tossed from a Mexican joint around the same time? I seem to recall it being mentioned, but mostly ignored it.

Careful you people , or we’re going to end up back in the days of segregation. Before you know it, only Thai folks will be allowed in Thai restaurants, only Italians in Italian restaurants, Ethiopians in theirs, Mexicans, and on and on it will go.

Hopefully they won’t deny those nice Jewish folks their Chinese dinner on 12/25 though , because they’ve been through enough.

DipodomysDeserti > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/27/2018 at 22:13

If you don’t think you have an innate human right to travel this world as you please, then you’re a slave to whatever system of government you happened to be born into.

As someone who has lived my whole life a few hours from the Mexican border, the last person you want to ask for a perspective on the issue is an old white guy from central California. They’re completely out of touch (no offense to ImmoralMinority, who’s most definitely more in touch than most).

There’s a whole lot wrong in this article. So much that it’s hard to take it seriously. The fact that this guy is supposedly a historian, and yet chooses to completely ignore the history of the border between the US and Mexico, and the history between Mexican-Americans and the US government shows his ignorance. Maybe it’s willful, maybe it’s not, but it’s definitely ignorant.

See Haadkoe’s comment for some more obscene ignorance.

DipodomysDeserti > LOREM IPSUM
06/27/2018 at 22:16

Watch out folks, we got ourselves a tough guy, r eady to kill some immigrants!

fintail > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/27/2018 at 22:16

Kind of resembles Sessions.

DipodomysDeserti > LOREM IPSUM
06/27/2018 at 22:16

You’re understa n ding of how segregation worked in the South seems a little fuzzy.

fintail > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/27/2018 at 22:16

Not all of his points are wrong . Mexico is a mess, but maybe , the author should examine his own house first, the mess IMO he doesn’t address as he should (as an actual intellectual conservative).

I wonder what he thinks of conservative business owners, the boostrapping heroes of the Randian fairytale, who profit from illegal labor. He whines about “democrats”, but when it comes to labor, it is now “corporations” - kind of a weasel tactic . It’d also be interesting to see what he thinks about cheap labor helping to keep some consumer prices lower, helping to mask the declining real incomes that have plagued Americans since the temporarily embarrassed millionaire syndrome became national dogma via trickle down policy .

One comment there I find agreeable, buried among the victim mentality chatter :

“ America is the victim? Oh my. We want the drugs, cheap labor, and cheap stuff.

Open borders is a nonsensical term. Binaries are false choices.

Mexico will do what it feels is necessary, as America does. Catering to the US seems to have produced chaos, so why not try something else.”

Interesting. If Mexico is somehow trying to disrupt the US, I’d like to see what VDH thinks about active Russian/Putin efforts to disrupt both the US and western world as a whole. Funny that he has a book about winning WW2 - won the war, and we are losing the peace.

fintail > LOREM IPSUM
06/27/2018 at 22:19

I don’t know if heckling fascists is really the same thing.

Elumerere > LOREM IPSUM
06/27/2018 at 22:26

Yeah, those folks (the trumpster fires) got kicked out of the places based on their recent actions in high powered positions, not based on their nationality, race or sexual orientation (which one cannot choose, unlike actions).
It’s not at all the same thing. Try harder.

LOREM IPSUM > DipodomysDeserti
06/27/2018 at 22:30

Let me ask you... Do Korea or Israel have, what, tens of t housands of people jumping their border every year? No. Why? Because machine gun fire is a good deterrent to trespassing.

Also, tongue in cheek. I’d never actually want to see anyone hurt or injured in their pursuit of a better life. But seriously, what's the point of a border if you're going to allow it to be penetrated like a bunny ranch employee without repercussion?

LOREM IPSUM > DipodomysDeserti
06/27/2018 at 22:32

I'm not driving, I'm traveling! I am free to roam wherever I please without government interference!

DipodomysDeserti > LOREM IPSUM
06/27/2018 at 23:16

Israel and and North Korea: two shining examples of what to never do.

LOREM IPSUM > Elumerere
06/27/2018 at 23:18

S ome of you folks really make it too easy. That knee just can’t help but jerk, lol.

Man listen, Mexico has had 208 years to get it’s shit together. They haven’t. From all accounts it is a complete and utter clusterfuck of corruption, gangsterism, and poverty with no possible hope of resolution in sight. It’s a liability.

America should annex Mexico.

It would bring order and established government, and it would give citizenship to all of those poor souls who can’t wait to head north.

Win-win, I’d say!

LOREM IPSUM > DipodomysDeserti
06/27/2018 at 23:21

So, you’re an anti- Semite and anti-K orean now .

Shame!

LOREM IPSUM > DipodomysDeserti
06/27/2018 at 23:34

...a nd I’m sitting on the Canadian side of the border.

Come at m e bro!

DipodomysDeserti > LOREM IPSUM
06/27/2018 at 23:41

Let’s not name call. I love all peoples.

LOREM IPSUM > DipodomysDeserti
06/27/2018 at 23:43

Me too, I’m just bustin’ balls.

Cheers.

deprecated account > LOREM IPSUM
06/27/2018 at 23:44

I’ve said this before, kind of ironically, but like, would it really be that bad of an idea? Other than upkeep costs of course.

V8soundRIOT- Now Has a V8 > fintail
06/28/2018 at 00:15

I don’t think you really understand what a fascist is.

My bird IS the word > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/28/2018 at 02:07

It’s called a border for a reason. Honestly, I wonder why the conversation hasn’t been that if they can sneak people regularly, what is to stop, say, jihadists from sneaking weapons or explosives through south america which has high rates of corruption? I mean, blah blah american dream. It’s a national security nightmare.

2. If this was any other country but the so-called “developed” world, you would be lucky to not be shot crossing the border, or at the very least jailed. If I wanted to go live in england without immigrating, I would get my ass deported. But I don’t live in a shitty country.

3. We don’t consider mexico a threat, but what if the situation was the same and they had a more capable military?

4. If you don’t care about laws being broken, does that mean that I can do whatever I want? Fuck no!

Maybe I am getting to meta with this. Been watching too much war history documentaries.

On a more serious note, racism is a disease. What isn’t commonly discussed is how it’s a vicious cycle: Everybody want’s to be the good guy. (ego) When told they are deficient, especially for an arbitrary reason, they reject it as ridiculous, as they should. They begin to wonder, if an entire group of people think that I am no good, because I am a different group, than I must be in the good group, and them in the bad. My team is always the good team. Team country. team class. team color. team gender. team religion. Team team team.

We are all deficient. We are all imperfect. We all fail. Centuries of assholes have built centuries of bad karma, and our generation is going to pay the bill. A ll because people can’ t fucking get along. By pretending we are never wrong, we ignore truths and allow wrong decisions to be made. People retaliate regardless of the moral implications. The attention to hypocrisy is never present. It may be humanity’s fatal flaw.

My bird IS the word > DipodomysDeserti
06/28/2018 at 02:12

You are, in fact, a slave to society. By entering into a society, you agree to abide by it’s rules. If you do not obey the rules, you are cast out. The qualities of the rules are irrelevant. They exist to protect the security of the whole. The entire point of the existance of nations and government is to keep it’s inhabitants safe at the cost of those outside. The fallacy of promoting “good” in the world is only because the people of the united states expect that said goodness will increase their own safety or quality of life. The second it puts that in danger is the second morals go out the window.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/social-contract

My bird IS the word > DipodomysDeserti
06/28/2018 at 02:12

https://www.britannica.com/topic/social-contract

DipodomysDeserti > My bird IS the word
06/28/2018 at 06:56

In other words, freedom is slavery?

It s ounds like you were taught civics by some hardline socialists (real ones like Stalin, not Sanders).

Have fun with that!

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Elumerere
06/28/2018 at 08:29

Interesting distinction...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > LOREM IPSUM
06/28/2018 at 08:30

No, thank you.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > DipodomysDeserti
06/28/2018 at 08:36

Like I said: I only seldom get past VDH’s first paragraph. I have yet to see a single word from him on North Korea since POTUS 45's trip to see Li’l Fat Kim. (Name calling; not very sorry.)

IM is conservative enough, but it doesn’t get in the way of being more than decent, which is more than you can say about 45 and his ilk. Bunch of insecure White people.

I agree that it’s ridiculous to be subjugated to whatever side of a line on a map you’re born on.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail
06/28/2018 at 08:39

All of which makes me want to go hide because it’s over my head. 45 is disrupting the entire planet.

fintail > V8soundRIOT- Now Has a V8
06/28/2018 at 09:31

I sincerely doubt you have the knowledge and credentials to correct me, but if so, go ahead, ante up.

Plenty of fascists in this regime, and those who aid and abet them are fascist-adjacent enough to be placed in the same basket.

My bird IS the word > DipodomysDeserti
06/28/2018 at 10:54

Life is slavery. Also, you didn't refute my logic

Elumerere > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/28/2018 at 11:00

One is a passive trait (sexuality, race, origin, nationality), the other is active (what I choose to believe in, my actions, my position). It’s the difference between where I come from and where I choose to go with it. Huge distinction.

Elumerere > LOREM IPSUM
06/28/2018 at 11:07

America did annex quite a bit of Mexico over the years (Texas, California, and a few more).

The dumpster fire is in large parts due to American influence and consumerism (who consumes all those drugs that keep the cartels going?) The US should have the best possible development of Mexico as their own goal, as it is in both nations best interests. Mexico will get its shit together in the foreseeable future , is 150+ million citizens strong and will be a major power going forward. Trust my words.

That aside, my comment wasn’t directed at Mexico. Nice of you to change the topic at hand (not unexpected, sadly).
Remember, I was responding to you regarding the refusal of service based on the customer’ s actions and belief-systems. And how that is vastly different to denying service based on sexual orientation, nationality and race.

Try again, try harder. It’s really not that hard.
As the german teacher would say: 6, setzen.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Elumerere
06/28/2018 at 11:12

There are those who would debate which category sexuality falls into or, for that matter, gender, but I don’t take any issue with your point. This is an important distinction.

LOREM IPSUM > Elumerere
06/28/2018 at 11:36

“Mexico will get its shit together in the foreseeable future, is 150+ million citizens strong and will be a major power going forward. Trust my words."

Kinja'd!!!

Spanfeller is a twat > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/28/2018 at 11:48

Obrador is the biggest piece of shit politician my country has seen since Carlos Salinas in the 90s (that almost caused a civil war) and Porfirio Diaz (who caused a civil war)

He doesn’t mean it literally, he’s just like Trump in the sense that voters take him seriously but not literally, which is very scary. Obrador has a very nationalistic, protectionist public view of my country that will almost certainly fall to pieces once he sits in the National Palace and sees that he has to deal with 1.7 million workers in the federal bureaucracy and 18 million rich Mexicans that cut right through his shit. Obrador is not who he says he is, and he will most certainly make my nation one of further human rights abuses and inequality.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Spanfeller is a twat
06/28/2018 at 11:53

Would Obrador get elected if not for Donald Trump? I like “seriously but not literally.” I’ll remember that one.

Spanfeller is a twat > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/28/2018 at 11:59

Not my phrase, from a report in CNN or MSNBC featured in last week tonight .

Obrador has been on campaign for 12 years, he’s spent 75 million dollars of public money for his past two bids and hundreds of millions of dollars more running both PRD and Morena(because elections/parties are publicly funded here)

Yet he’s consistantly polled at around 35-37%... he doesn’t represent the majority of Mexico. He will win because the other parties seldom saw the threat or did anything to diminish it (like passing second round voting as the EU recommended after the 2006 elections).

Right now the two establishment parties are fighting with each other for a split 45% of the vote as Obrador keeps the 37% he needs to win un democratically, as have all Mexican Presidents since Salinas.

Obrador isn’t a result of Trump, as much as the Tea Party and Trump himself probably used Obrador’s tactics to master swining the votes of desperate people.

Party-vi > DipodomysDeserti
06/28/2018 at 12:34

Hey now

Party-vi > DipodomysDeserti
06/28/2018 at 12:34

>.>

DipodomysDeserti > My bird IS the word
06/28/2018 at 14:32

That’s a line that Big Brother uses in 1984...

I wasn’t trying to refute your logic, just pointing out how bizarre and totalitarian it is.

DipodomysDeserti > Party-vi
06/28/2018 at 14:33

It’s alright, he didn’t get the reference...

My bird IS the word > DipodomysDeserti
06/28/2018 at 16:13

It limts governmental power as much as it grants it.

Elumerere > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/28/2018 at 18:27

“So, when did you decide to become straight?”

No one ever asked themselves this question, cause it wasn’t necessary. So, not a choice.

Elumerere > LOREM IPSUM
06/28/2018 at 18:29

Just remember the work ethic of every mexican person living in the US. We stand no chance.

LOREM IPSUM > Elumerere
06/28/2018 at 18:37

Raising the bar isn't necessarily a bad thing, lol.

V8soundRIOT- Now Has a V8 > fintail
06/28/2018 at 18:56

What knowledge and credentials do you have?

I’m going to make a good guess and say that you align with Antifa, which wouldn’t be at all surprising if it’s true.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Elumerere
06/28/2018 at 19:01

The quotation marks make this a rhetorical question, right? Then again, you answer the question yourself , so I suppose my question is moot. Or was your comment a lecture? A lament?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Elumerere
06/28/2018 at 19:05

“So when did you find the answer and stop questioning?”

Nobody’s ever asked themselves that one either, right?

fintail > V8soundRIOT- Now Has a V8
06/28/2018 at 20:45

Your were asked to ante up. The onus is on you to do so before asking questions of others or answering questions with questions.

Th anks:)

Elumerere > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/28/2018 at 21:22

Not a lecture, at all, just a little quip to the interesting rhetorical usage of ‘there are those who would say... ’.

I took the wind out of those sails, is all.

Elumerere > LOREM IPSUM
06/28/2018 at 21:24

No, not at all, which is why collaboration between the US and Mexico is far preferable to confrontation.

V8soundRIOT- Now Has a V8 > fintail
06/28/2018 at 21:30

I asked a simple and easily answerable question that any reasonable person that claims they have more knowledge and credentials would answer. So I ask again, what knowledge and credentials do you have? You also never asked a question.

fintail > V8soundRIOT- Now Has a V8
06/28/2018 at 21:38

Nah, you came at me with this hot take:

I don’t think you really understand what a fascist is.

Then I asked you to explain the relevance of your opinion and even to correct me if you wished. From there, nothing.

That’s it!

Can you legally drink? Do you hold a passport? Do you have a degree? I bet the answer to at least 2:3 is no.

And you’re trying to lecture others, hilarious. Back to the video games or the non-condensed version of Atlas Shrugged.

LOREM IPSUM > Elumerere
06/28/2018 at 22:01

You must be a blast at parties.

LOREM IPSUM > DipodomysDeserti
06/28/2018 at 22:05

Lol

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Elumerere
06/28/2018 at 22:15

I thought about this and I was afraid that I’d failed to entirely assume positive intent on your part because I definitely want to be an ally. I’m a guy who straddles the trench in many ways.

Elumerere > LOREM IPSUM
06/28/2018 at 22:32

Huh?

Elumerere > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/28/2018 at 22:33

Oh, I know you’re a good one. My initial response was more so that Haaiduken up there could maybe learn a thing or two why his comparison is bad.

LOREM IPSUM > Elumerere
06/28/2018 at 22:35

And we're all so very grateful.

Elumerere > LOREM IPSUM
06/28/2018 at 22:43

You apparently didn’t learn.

LOREM IPSUM > Elumerere
06/28/2018 at 22:47

I learned more about you than I cared to , frankly.

Elumerere > LOREM IPSUM
06/28/2018 at 22:48

Sigh

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > LOREM IPSUM
06/29/2018 at 09:36

Please speak for yourself, Kemosabe.

LOREM IPSUM > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/29/2018 at 09:42

Yeah, I wasn’t grateful either. Sarcasm doesn’t relay well via text at times.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > LOREM IPSUM
06/29/2018 at 09:57

But I was not ungrateful.

Your choices of words would speak for others and I am suggesting that you focus on how you feel. Just a suggestion.

LOREM IPSUM > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/29/2018 at 10:05

Ok, I. The royal we. You know, the editorial.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > LOREM IPSUM
06/29/2018 at 10:11

The guy comes across as judgmental and snarky and in so doing, does much less than he might to advance his position. He’s pretty mouthy in other places in the Kinjasphere as well . But personally, I’d still want to engage with him because I straddle the t rench of the political latrine on many issues and if nobody ever wants to cross that trench — which trench is being dredged deeper by the day these days — then we’ll just be more and more divided.

LOREM IPSUM > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
06/29/2018 at 11:44

I mean, all well and good, but I would hope that you and most others would have recognized my initial posts for the shitposts that they were. In poor taste, absolutely, but buddy is over here responding as if he were Mike F rancesa lambasting Laurel and Hardy for putting W ho on first because he belongs in the outfield.

I’m sure he’s a hit throughout a lot of the Kinjaverse, and he seems intelligent enough, but damned if he can take a ( bad) joke.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > LOREM IPSUM
06/29/2018 at 11:51

It’s good, man. Hard to read the nuances when we type everything. Ya’ just can’t talk religion with some folks.